Oh joy. Another ‘man’ telling us how to be feminists.  Newsflash Sullivan, keeping quiet about sexism doesn’t fix/help anything.   

H. Clinton is a scary warmonger who constantly tries to arouse vitriol against Afghanis, Pakis, and Iranians, at different turns. A dangerous creature of a corrupted Empire. 

A feminist wouldn’t stay married to a man who constantly cheated on you and sexually harassed other woman. This would exclude Hillary.

I think Sullivan let an emotional reaction to Hillary get the best of him. Any woman has the right to decide to put her husband’s career ahead of hers. That is her choice. Ditto a husband for his wife. Any one of us for an ill parent. A frienn for a friend. Etc.

I guess Andrew wants the role for himself. 

oh “jeff” knows wants to tell everyone what a  ”real feminist” is.

really jeff really?

so what kind of hillary hater are you?

a right wing hater or a obamacrat hater?

not much difference in my book….

 Sullivan is right, Hillary is no feminist, she rode her husbands coattails to elected office, then complained that everyone was being sexist and picking on her. Hillary is more like Sarah Palin than liberals want to admit.

I don’t know why I am banned from commenting on Mediaite, I really miss it so much. Please allow me back, I don’t even know why I was banned. Love you Mediaite. Give me some love too and reinstate me. I love you so much!

Perhaps its post like this that got you banned. . . say something nice about Clinton, and under no circumstances compare her to palin. . . don’t forget that naughty little massage therapist that mr. palin was finding relaxing. . .

I’m unclear as to sullivan’s point. . .???????

Sullivan argument is flawed- independent women can still have a strong feminist reputation based on individual accomplishments outside of their marriage. Further the equality of woman’s rights and standing up for women has nothing to do with riding the coattails of your husband nor does putting your marriage before politics. Yes, militant feminists would replace men with robots but most women understand that the feminist movement has evolved. Margret Thatcher was a trailblazer, she didn’t have to burn her bra to make a point most men didn’t survive gender politics in dealing with her.

Nice rant but not much substance.

Who put Sullivan in charge of defining feminism? Really, he has no authority on this subject. It’s just another desperate attempt by Sullivan to get attention with Hillary-bashing. Yeah, I get it, andrew, you don’t like Hillary Clinton and you have harped about her for years. Get over it.

Who put Sullivan in charge of defining feminism? Really, he has no authority on this subject. It’s just another desperate attempt by Sullivan to get attention with Hillary-bashing. Yeah, I get it, andrew, you don’t like Hillary Clinton and you have harped about her for years. Get over it.

Tell us about your head injury!!!!

Tell us about your head injury!!!!

“…mr. palin was finding relaxing…” 

Brilliant work here sport, but I’ll cut you some lack because of your head injury!

…and the massage therapist was named… Mary Jo Lewinsky!

Hillary was never my girl and she sort of pissed me off with the ‘whaddyawantmetodo, stay at home and make brownies?” comment so many years ago.  Considering that I went from being a professional career woman to SAHM BY CHOICE,  I consider brownies a metaphor for love for my family.  I also am a centerist, not a liberal, so our politics clashed.

But since her DH left office, she’s gotten a boatload of flack for her choices, and the misogeny was clear during the last election. Sullivan is just piling on.

Newsflash for Mr Sullivan:  the last person who gets to decide what a feminist is or isn’t, is a man. 

And I certainly would have wanted her more for POTUS than our current resident. And NOT because of her gender.

Btw, she stayed with her husband because she wanted to, not because some handbook said that she must do this or that.  And THAT is what the bottomline of feminism is really about.  Being free to make your own choices based upon your own desires, for your own life.

Not surpised though, Andrew Sullivan has always been a tool.  And condsidering the crap that he’s said about other women in the political sphere, I’m surpised that anyone gives that yahoo a platform.

Stop defining FEMINISM.  What women do or did in their professional lives is not up for debate.  You have NO IDEA of the crap we’ve put up with over the years.  I am Hillary’s age.  I have worked my entire life.  I have a great job BUT I have been told I am ‘taking a man’s job that needs to support his family’, ‘that I need/want to stay home with my children because that’s MY job’ ‘sorry honey, you’re laid off because we need to keep the MEN employed because they are the breadwinners’.  Hillary Clinton is a VERY smart woman that DID support her husband as First Lady in Arkansas and in the WH.  She also did the jobs FOR FREE because you know, that’s how MEN define the JOB.  If she hadn’t done them she would have been denigrated for THAT.  If you think women have been ‘equal’ for YEARS and feminism is a done deal, I have a bridge to sell you. 

Everything Sullivan says is flawed. How did this man ever get an audience? The truth is that Hillary Clinton is MANY things.

what I LOVE is just days ago AS wanted to know why he doesn’t have more WOMEN reading his blog…

You know, another thing is DENNIS THATCHER.  He was Hillary Clinton with a PENIS.  HE was the one that made the household run.  He was a millionaire when he met her and financed her political career.  He bought her a house in London so she could BE there.  Is MT any less a ‘feminist’ because she used her husband’s MONEY to get ahead???

When did Hillary play the victim……….?

Let us consider the “source” – Andrew Sullivan, the same creep who spread the rumor with vengeance that Trig was not Sarah’s Son.  An absolute dirt bag, and whoever described him as prominent is sorely mistaken.  

Andrew Sullivan is a bag of dirt.  He has absolutely no credibility to comment about any female and how she should be viewed.  

Funny, but that is what I concluded from your monumentally inane post about what a feminist is and is not.

As a woman, I have felt betrayed by Hillary Clinton because she enabled her philandering, sexist husband throughout his career. She did nothing to protect other women from him, women such as Kathleen Willey, who was sexually accosted by Bill in the White House when she went to ask for a job. Every woman Bill decided to go after was fair game, including all those in subordinate positions such as Paula Jones and of course Monica Lewinsky. Then there was Juanita Broaddrick who flatly claimed rape and was never supported by the so-called feminists, especially Hillary. Sorry, Hillary has always been looking out for number one (herself) and number two (her Bill).

 I was a Hillary voter in 2008 (and still think she should be prez).  At the time, I concluded that the bigger misogynists were the “Obamaniacs” (remember that term?).  I am glad that Randi Rhodes has been relegated to a 50-watt microphone for her insane enmity of Hillary.  I don’t think Jeff is a right winger though:  he would have called Bill a “sexual predator” instead of accusing him of (just?) harassment.

Feminists disqualify themselves from being feminists: in the ’60s and ’70s they took everything it was easy to take, not taking no for an answer. When it came to fighting in combat trenches where there’s plenty of blood, bayonets and grenades, suddenly they saw “reason.” Cake, meet eating it.

about mr palin and his massage “therapist”, I think her name was “happy hands”. . . every comment you write is just insulting rhetoric. . you don’t have an intelligent thought in your little pea-brain mind. . not one.

Hillary Rodham Clinton is my ROLE MODEL.
and one badass broad.

Are we talking about prominent feminist fruit Andrew “Milky Loads” Sullivan? The very same Andrew Sullivan with the pathological fixation on Sarah Palin’s womb? Talking with preeminent feminist theoretician Bill “She’s a Cunt” Maher? About Hillary “Stand By Yer Man” Clinton? And why not toss in, just for the sake of sheer gratuitous buffoonery, NY Times resident fool Charles Blow…

Yeah, the problem with modern feminism is that the whole lot of these vulgar obnoxious characters pretty much define its current state.

Cat Lady-
I’m really not interested in having a conversation or being your “internet friend”…K Sweetie.? You seem to think someone gives a rat’s arse about your ignorant and insulting entitlement whore postings.

…and your butthole-licking cat has worms.

Hillary Rodham Clinton is definitely a role
model for all women and she is so far above the intellectual capacity of Sullivan,
that it would take her only seconds to put Andy boy, in a submissive position.
What does Andrew Sullivan, a misogynist homosexual, know about any woman? 
Sullivan have to have at least visited Wonderland before you can even comment on a woman’s capabilities,talents strengths and sexuality, with or without
her man. Stick to your own limited territory!

“Clinton’s marriage may have benefited her career, but the Illinois
native was well on her way to a rewarding profession long before she
tied the knot with her law school sweetheart.”

It’s really quite comic when liberals start to believe their own propaganda. This is an example of Hillary’s early progress towards a “rewarding profession”:

http://www.wnd.com/2008/04/60962/

Or this little gem from Frontline:

“The records also identified what investigators believe was a significant
phone call on April 7, 1986 between Ms. Clinton and then-Madison loan
officer Don Denton. When questioned by investigators about the call,
Denton remembered speaking with Ms. Clinton about efforts to provide
Ward with his commissions. According to their conversation, Denton
believes that Ms.Clinton was familiar with the nature of the transaction
— again, a transaction that investigators believe was intended to
deceive financial regulators.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/arkansas/docs/recs.html

Hillary Clinton: Feminist Paragon.

really?  You’re gonna quote WORLD NET DAILY on Hillary???  REALLY?  No WOMAN in her right mind listens to one flippin’ thing they say!  Talk about PROPAGANDA.  Why don’t you ACTUALLY go back to when she graduated and she worked for Barry Goldwater…how about right after THAT.  How about NOT when the right wing decided they ONE MORE TIME hated a DEMOCRAT and went after them with everything in their arsenal…propaganda indeed.  WHO IS BELIEVING THEIR OWN S#$%?

aren’t YOU just a charming little piece of humanity???

you’re a fool and a moron.  That is NOT what happened and if you’d pull your head out you would KNOW that.  MEN DECIDED that women couldn’t BE in the military.  MEN decided that women couldn’t go to military schools.  MEN decided that women would HEED them.  And women fought them every step of the way.  You have NO IDEA what has happened to women.  If you think gays in the military are a big deal you oughta transport yourself to the decades you THINK you know.

that’s valid.  I personally don’t think it was Hillary’s place to do that.  EVERY WOMEN should stand up for herself and not take it.  But I’ve seen to much to think that they CAN. 

I like Hillary, but lets face it, she’s no Margaret Thatcher.

 I presume that in your vast feminist enlightenment, you did not read that the allegations were made by Jerry Zeifman, the general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee who supervised Clinton’s work on the Watergate investigation in 1974. Or that Zeifman is a lifelong Democrat. But if it assuages your sense of open-mindedness, here is the actual letter written by Zeifman:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_jerry_ze_080325_1974_3a_hillary_lost_j.htm

Speaking of “No WOMAN in her right mind”, my sister was the head of a NOW chapter in a major American city in the early 1980′s, A few years ago her husband told me that she had to give it up because the bull
dykes were just too much to bear. Bull dykes, you know, like Hillary Clinton and Andrew Sullivan.

 I presume that in your vast feminist enlightenment, you did not read that the allegations were made by Jerry Zeifman, the general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee who supervised Clinton’s work on the Watergate investigation in 1974. Or that Zeifman is a lifelong Democrat. But if it assuages your sense of open-mindedness, here is the actual letter written by Zeifman:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_jerry_ze_080325_1974_3a_hillary_lost_j.htm

Speaking of “No WOMAN in her right mind”, my sister was the head of a NOW chapter in a major American city in the early 1980′s, A few years ago her husband told me that she had to give it up because the bull
dykes were just too much to bear. Bull dykes, you know, like Hillary Clinton and Andrew Sullivan.

In all fairness to Sullivan—would Hilary Clinton be where she was if not for name recognition to Bill Clinton? The comparison is a woman who is a famous in her own right—and that would be women like Mary Teresa Norton (first woman elected, and re-elected to the House of Representatives in her own right. served 13 2-year terms before retiring), Marrgaret Chase Smith (first woman elected, and re-elected, to the Senate in her own right, served 4 6-year terms before retiring), and Ella Tambussi Grasso (first woman elected, and then re-elected, governor in her own right, served a full term and half of a second term before terminal ovarian cancer claimed her life).

Andrew Sullivan is a slimeball. And Margaret Thatcher was Britain’s worst PM of the 20th century. Yes, worse than Neville Chamberlain. Chamberlain, after all, merely appeased Hitler. Thatcher would probably have forged an alliance with him.

I have a lot of respect for Hillary, she has done a terrific job of SoS; but lets be honest, she is where she is because of Bill, and her silence on Bill’s bad behavior did not benefit her or the women’s movement at large.  NOW stood with Bill while he violated an intern – that is pretty sad state of affairs and yet truer than true.  When the feminist organization stood with the abuser and not the abused they lost all credibility as “feminists”, Hillary included.

“Feminist” means any person who personally believes in the rights of women, whatever those rights are are, versus those who see women as second-class humans beings. Men can be feminists. So, the little argument that “A feminist wouldn’t stay married to a man who. . .” is a narrow glimpse of the big, big picture of human rights for females. The label of an outside observer never really defines the heart of anything.

I have to agree that that was not NOW’s finest moment.  However, I don’t think the term ‘feminist’ is defined by a single screwup.  And that is probably the ‘problem’.  ALWAYS wanting to define women and Hillary in particular for ONE THING.  I think Hillary would have gone extremely far WITHOUT Bill.  We know she’s capable.

thank you.

we will never know because Hillary did ‘stand by her man’.  However, feminism is the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.   I fail to see how acting as First Lady of Arkansas and working the entire time as a lawyer, being First Lady in the WH and now being set free, disqualifies her as a ‘feminist’.  Hillary would have been attacked no matter what she did.  ‘Riding Bill’s coattails’ or ‘going off and doing her own thing’.

She a Feminazi of the worst sort, she’s probably lesbian, and that makes her abnormal.

good thing you don’t have to post your real name…what a fool.  If a woman isn’t like YOU define a ‘woman’ she MUST be a ‘lesbian’.  I won’t SAY what YOU must be.

The mystery is why anyone would expect anything other than misogyny from a gay British public intellectual. It’s required dress.

Yes, and the battle’s largely won. Now, look about you at the collateral damage. We now have an entire economy where most of the earners have paired up, leaving the remainder increasingly desperate. There is a very real correlation between all manner of societal ills and this misshapen structure. As the generations pile up, there will come a hue and cry to use the outsized security apparatus which has been constructed to effect some sort of ‘solution’ to the problem of all of these ‘useless eaters’. How many will merely turn their heads to what they’ve had a part in making?

But, but, but…the very same minority of which he is a part is also chiefly responsible for the body-identity problems foisted on girls/women. (And, increasingly, boys/men.) When idealized male homoeroticism underlies so much of the fashion and entertainment worlds, small wonder that so many kids grow up all out of sorts. 

Such things weren’t so much “decided” as they were inevitable. Only those with significant leisure time can afford to think beyond the dictates of nature, including that of those who would take what is theirs. Those traditional gender roles reflected the underlying reality quite faithfully. It were, until quite recently, only the few wealthy who could afford other ambitions. 

Now, in the wake of a more universal freedom from the immediate bonds of necessity, massive change would come. Didst thou imagine it would be without growing pains? Or that only thine own oxen were gored in the process? Look about you at the wreckage of what was once a far more egalitarian country. (Always excepting the status of blacks as our special case.) 

You’re, at least tangentially, in the media business. One of its dominant themes has been the ‘Decline of the Newspaper’. What has long struck me is how little those who lament this trend understood their own (insider’s) part in said state of affairs. When I was a lad, the newspaper organized themselves around the lives of everybody. When my fellow Boomers took over, Living became Style. People became Celebrities. Sportsmen became The Rich. Who abandoned whom?

At last! Someone else who at least partially grasps the truth of such things! Welcome and well met!

Bless you! If only more women would identify that which connects so many of the misogynistic persuasion. Too much of the cultural zeitgeist is filled with the effluvia of men who will go to their graves cringing at the very thought of a vagina. Openly gay, closeted, or profoundly unaware of themselves, they have done an immense amount of damage. Few they may be, but their felt need to strike back against the object of their disaffection would seem to be a profoundly powerful motivator.

Stand down. She overplayed it for effect. Also, perhaps, out of frustration at such fine fellows.

Maybe you’d be right. Then again, LJB57′s apparent animosity aside, she may well be correct on all three counts. Her indictment wouldn’t succeed just because she was true on the facts. FWIW, (1) I know what her hero, Margaret Sanger truly was, as I have no doubt Hillary does. Myself, I do not adopt as heroes eugenicists, most especially not one so vile as to have been a favored Muse of Adolf  Hitler; (2) I wouldn’t be the least surprised if her longtime, annual get-togethers with her (Hollywood and other) gal pals wasn’t also something else. Other than the usual straight man’s desire for the prurient details–especially as I’ve long had a serious crush on one of those pals, Mary Steenburgen–I’ve little interest in the truth or falsity of this. Except that it certainly would provide telling context for the ‘misadventures’ of her hubby; (3) lesbianism, at least as a preference, very much is abnormal. (One needn’t inject a pseudo-science like psychology into such things.) I admit to puzzlement as to why that’s seen as pejorative, as none of the explanations with which I’ve so far been provided seem in the least convincing. (Even my own father, a lifelong, practicing Roman Catholic who, I am quite certain, has never even looked lingeringly at a single Playboy pin-up, once told my brother-in-law and me that he didn’t understand what all of the fuss was about when Vanessa Williams was dethroned. He’d always ASSUMED that everyone, excepting only gay men, were capable of sexual attraction to women.)

wow…when I logged on tonight I had all these ‘replies’ and was confused.  This ‘conversation’ took place three weeks ago.  I must say I have thorougly enjoyed reading all you comments.  Thank you!