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Awful

Breaking: Ladies Not Super Concerned About Creepy Dudes’ Feelings


On Friday, Pandagon’s Amanda Marcotte started an online discussion about harassment, and it essentially devolved into a giant pity party for creepy dudes whose feelings were hurt when they acted, you know, creepy and someone told them so. Instead of trying to not be so creepy anymore, they proposed a novel solution: ladies should just be nicer about all the creepiness!

Marcotte writes in response:

…Let’s entertain for a moment this complaint about the legions of bitches roaming the earth, waiting for men to be nice to them so they can yell at them. Let’s say it’s true that this happens.

So what? What does that have to do with harassment?

Nothing is what. Even if there are all these women roaming around, eagerly looking for chances to call men “creeps” for no reason whatsoever, that has nothing to do with the acceptability of harassment. That in no way negates a woman’s right not to be bothered by someone she doesn’t want to talk to. It in no way justifies cat-calling. It literally has nothing to do with the subject of harassment, nor does it have anything to do with harassment policies, which are about making sure a woman has recourse if a man won’t leave her alone.

Marcotte is skeptical of the commenters who chimed in with stories about being yelled at by women for “no reason,” especially given that the vast majority of women are usually not screaming at people left and right 24/7 for saying hello or smiling at them or whatever innocuous story was presented to the online community in the thread in order to mask all the creeping. She even goes so far as to break down the typical verbal and non-verbal cues in a social interaction that make it very clear when someone does or does not want to be talked to.

…And yet. The first comment, from “Zen Poseur”: “Your argument is invalid because Chewbacca was impolite to the Ewoks as they tried to roast him alive. Chewbacca is the real bigot. Your argument is invalid.”

Ah, the circle of life internet.

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  • Anonymous

    The thing is, they are not acting creepy. You just aren’t attracted to them. An attractive man acting the *exact* same way is not called “creepy.”

    So, this article is simply the flip side of a sentiment summed up in a bumper sticker “No Fat Chicks.” Somehow, I think you may have a different take on the social acceptance of women not deemed “worthy” – right?

  • Anonymous

    I just can’t understand/relate to this article.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1204160833 Madison Brown

    I hate cat calling from all men. Good looking or not.

  • http://hoydenabouttown.com/ tigtog

    Nope, you just don’t get it. Men perceived by most to be attractive/highly-eligible are often *extremely* creepy, because they don’t believe that any woman could say “no” to them and mean it. Indeed, a man who the woman might initially find very attractive can do/say something creepy and totally ruin what was up until that moment a promising flirtation.

    Creepy is all about insisting on forcing an interaction when the other person doesn’t want it, and there’s nothing wrong with people not wanting an interaction for any reason at all. (Yes, this does mean that I think women can be creepy too.)

  • Anonymous

    Creepiness is not strictly a “no fat chicks/dudes” policy. “Creepy” is the alarm that tells you that someone’s interest in you may become dangerous. Women have to constantly perceive life in terms of not getting raped, so detecting dangerous people is pretty important. People who act weird (getting too personal, not backing off, saying very alarming things, etc) are potentially dangerous, but instead of labeling such a person as a threat flat out, calling their behavior “creepy” gives them the benefit of the doubt that they just have the vibe of a creep. But the vibe is enough for a stranger to not want to have anything to do with you.

  • Anonymous

    I get your point – I’m just saying an attractive man’s actions are categorized as flirting, cute, funny, etc…. while the same actions of an unattractive man is called “creepy.”

  • http://twitter.com/KeithFan28 Bobby

    Speaking as a not-very-attractive guy, the word “creepy” does hurt.

    I mean, you gotta work up the balls to go talk to a girl. Then when you do, she dismisses you as a potential rapist. It’s pretty tough.

  • http://hoydenabouttown.com/ tigtog

    When my husband slips a fifty from my wallet because I went to the bank yesterday and he didn’t, I categorise his actions as perfectly fine, yet if you were to do the same action to my wallet I would call you a “thief”.

    “Same actions” is not the point. Whether there is a *reasonable expectation* of CONSENSUAL *interaction* is the point.

  • http://twitter.com/KeithFan28 Bobby

    I think both sides would do good to try and see it from the other side’s perspective.

    From the women’s perspective. I can see how it would get annoying. And at times possibly scary, depending on how aggressive some guy gets.

    But you gotta work on seeing it from the male perspective. Getting called a creep for simply trying to make a human connection can be quite painful.

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