I disagree that it doesn’t discriminate, but I don’t particularly care that it does. There are also gender segregated bathrooms that should be unisex or there should be provisions made for…people that don’t consider themselves either sex, but it’s not likely to happen anytime soon and the way things work now is fine in comparison with greater injustices that could be handled first.

Since I currently live in Rhode Island, it’s neat to see us on the news, though, and not surprisingly at all it’s because someone is being a complete shit.

Yea,the ACLU is definitely pushing it on that one.Pretty lame,actually.

It may not be sexist but it’s creepy..having the daughter pledge her virginity to her father and all..weird.

ACLU -doing everything they possibly can to destroy the family bond and ruin America.

Where was that at in this story?

Telling young girls without fathers that they can’t go to a dance like this because their father isn’t around is far from harmless. I mean, the issue isn’t necessarily about the tradition; it seems to me that the issue is that rather than work with the young girl and allow her to go, they told her to stay home. They prevented her from going.

“I’m sorry, Lisa. You can’t go to the dance because you don’t have a daddy. This dance is only for girls who have daddies.”

Brutal. I don’t know that it requires intervention from the ACLU, or that the ACLU’s line of argumentation is worth defending, but my goodness this is a rather callous way to treat a fatherless child.

ACLU is like PETA, even people who agree with your concepts eventually find out your policies are nuts and want their charity money back.

you’re wrong. The story states ‘substitutes’ are allowed which is always the case in these things since the intent is fun and bonding, not being mean. The same is always true with ‘take your daughter to work’ days as well, all genders are welcome, and any relative is invited.

I have 2 words for the ACLU…BONEHEAD MOVE…

Neither this article nor the linked LA Times article mention the possibility of using substitutes. I read two others, and they didn’t say it either. I may have misread the situation.

If this little girl can go with a substitute, say an uncle or a family friend or even her mother, BUT the mother objects that even though her daughter is allowed to go, since the dance exists as a “father-daughter” dance, it is then discriminatory—then this is ridiculous.

When I saw the word “prevented” in both articles, I saw it as a decision of the school to block (prevent) the girl from going in any way. But, if the girl’s allowed to go, and the challenge is to the mere existence of father-daughter dances because they’re called father-daughter dances, then this is a waste of everyone’s time.

From paragraph 4:
(It should be noted that for girls without fathers in Cranston, a stand-in was welcome to attend the dance.)

God damn it. There it is. Well then. I stand corrected.

You apparently have trouble reading, either that or your english comprehension is under par. There is NO mention in this article or any other article for that matter that I have read about this story that even hints at “having the daughter pledge her virginity to her father.” The fact that you can through out that accusation proves exactly what’s wrong with this country. This was a school function that encourage father/daughter relationships by giving them a semi regular event to share together. Same with the mother/son baseball games. Not sure where you heard this part of the story but pretty sure it’s not in these articles.

This is the monster that the ‘progressives’ have created.

As to the idiots who maintain that girls without dads don’t get to go to these dances – nonsense and other stuff. I have seen girls go with uncles, foster dads, and even god fathers.

It is unfortunate that children sometimes have to pay the price of their parent’s mistakes. But why should every child have to pay for the folly of some?

here’s another example. They were using a large church for an area HS graduation, but the ACLU threatened a lawsuit. School didn’t want to fight it, so they moved it back to the school and only parents (or 2 only) could fit there. The church was just a large, inexpensive location, ACLU didn’t care. ACLU puts pure principles above common sense nowadays.

ACLU – common sense is not allowed

I remember those father/daughter dances (and other f/d events). Since my father lived on the other side of the country and I had no older male relatives or family friends, one of the other girls in my Campfire group would be asked to share her dad with me. It always ended up being the daughter of one of the leaders, because nobody ever volunteered. So the three of us would spend an awkward evening: the other girl understandably disappointed or angry at having her special evening with Daddy intruded upon; me even more uncomfortably aware than usual of not having a father (back then, that was unusual enough that it was excellent bully fodder, and I was reminded of it by someone else–often two of the girls in that Campfire group–at least once or twice a week, usually in the form of speculation about which of my personal traits made my dad “abandon” me); and the poor man having to go around smiling and pretending he didn’t harbor the same blame-the-kid anti-divorce prejudice that the lovely Mr. Catholic Citizen (upthread) exhibits so well.

Are father/daughter dances discriminatory? I think so. Leaving aside the daughters of divorce, how about the girls who don’t have a dad around and never did, like the daughters of never-married single moms or of lesbian couples? [Yes, I know that many of the upthread commenters are fanning themselves and insisting that "people like that" don't deserve consideration, but I'm writing for those of us who actually live in 21st-century America and realize that families come in more than one formation.] How about girls whose fathers have died?

I think the ACLU’s “perpetuating gender stereotypes” angle is kind of silly, but I do think father/daughter events are inherently discriminatory against daughters who don’t have fathers around, whether it’s because their fathers left one day, or were never around to begin with, or were killed in a firefight in Iraq. There’s a financial angle too: Children of single parents usually have less money than children of dual parents, which means that special events that require dressing up and buying tickets are a bigger financial burden.

As far as “tradition” goes, I’m sure you can think of a number of community “traditions” that aren’t around anymore because they were discriminatory. “Tradition” is not always harmless, nor is “but it’s tradition!” a valid argument for keeping something around. “Tradition” dictates that women stay at home and have babies while the menfolk go out and support the family. And how about the “tradition” of not allowing people of color to join a particular country club? Is that tradition or discrimination?

I’m not trying to be snarky here, but Cass: Would you defend those things on the basis of “tradition,” like you’re defending this?

I’m with them on that one, actually. Churches are not just large, inexpensive locations. The iconography and religious setting alone are grounds for it to be inappropriate.

http://lnk.co/I2VI9

A church is just a fancy building without the people and priesthood (whatever) there. For a majority of human existence religious buildings have doubled as ad hoc community centers. People have too much time on their hands and love to fight over absolutely stupid shit. It gets old.

But why should the fact that some kids don’t have fathers ruin everyone else’s good time?

This is like saying that we should ban dancing because some people don’t have legs.

if atheists truly avoid going to any church, there’s a lifetime of weddings and funerals they’ll have to avoid. Truth is, the location was for pragmatic, good reasons and the ACLU cared more about ‘making a point’ than having a happy graduation experience for more people. Sad.

What a great response. Very thoughtful. Thanks for writing it.

I definitely had those daughters in mind who come from the homes of single mothers as well as households with two lesbian moms, and I feel for them. I think that communities should, while keeping father-daughter events alive, do a better job of initiating community activities for kids with modern families, giving them an equal chance to socialize with adult role models in their lives, both male and female, whether they’re moms or dads or not.

I also want to add, just to back myself up a little, that in the article, I stated that most of the time, traditions are wrong, and that I’m thankful the ever-changing world wins out against these traditions on the regular. This father-daughter dance thing just seemed to me like one of those slight, over-harsh reactions that doesn’t deserve as much attention as, say, many of the other traditions you talked about in your comment that require a thorough, consistent fight. Like the menfolk going out to work while the womenfolk stay home to pop out babies. Obviously, that’s regression we need to keep our eye on! Father-daughter dances at the middle school? Not as much. You mentioned bullying, though, which is another story altogether.
Thanks again for taking the time to write your thoughtful response. I appreciated reading your perspective.

Weddings and funerals are private events to honor/remember private individuals. I go to churches and ceremonies all the time for weddings and funerals because they’re not about me. They’re about people I care about, and I respect their decisions.

Graduations from public school feature individuals. If it were me, and I went to a public school, my graduation would be about me. If the school—the government—decided to have a celebration of my work in a religious place, I’d be very much against that. It’s just as much a celebration of me as it is any other student, and to force me to go to it in a church is not acceptable. It’s also not even close to the same thing as my voluntarily showing up at a friend’s wedding or funeral.

They should also ban track and other running sports if any of the students are in wheelchairs or have some kind of disability that keep them from playing. And of course Choir needs to go if any students are tone deaf. And cheerleading in case anyone isn’t cheerful. The art teacher should never assign any projects like “Draw a picture of your family” in case there are kids without families. I’m sure there are a lot more important steps to make sure that the enjoyment of the many are sacrificed to the sensitivities of the few.

“Here you go, Sally. Dance with a pedophile instead.”

What in the world are you talking about?

Check your math.

My initial reaction was “oh, brother!”. . .

. . . and then I remembered that I wasn’t able to go to my school’s father daughter dances because my father was violent. It wasn’t like I could just ask someone to step in and play dad for the night. Hell, I wished there was someone to step in and be mom’s bodyguard instead of me.
Like most kids in a bad family situation, I was ashamed of my problems and felt like something was wrong with me. That dance was salt in the wound every year. And until I read through these messages, I still had it buried deep in me that this was my problem alone.
I love that my niece got to go with her dad to a little preschool father daughter dance (it was adorable), and I love when kids get to spend special time with their fathers. (I’m grateful to be reconciled with a much-changed dad.)
But I’ve had so many friends with bad family situation, and I’ve worked with kids whose fathers are incarcerated or out of the picture. On the happier side, I know terrific families with lesbian moms. Sure, kids in a minority of any sort will always deal with that, and often that’s just life, but making room for more kids seems like a good thing.
Bobby said, “But why should the fact that some kids don’t have fathers ruin everyone else’s good time?” Wow. One dance versus the day-to-day struggles many kids face?
People get mad about a lot of what the ACLU fights for, but often they’re speaking for the minority — and being in the minority can be a pretty tough place, something that’s hard to see when you’re in the majority group.
We’ve been changing the that only the majority matters when it comes to public events and work and other places where we gather as a community. For schools to stick to the norm of families being a mom and a dad seems out of step with the needs of many students.

I do “get” the upside to these dances, and 30 years later, I wish I’d been able to be a part of it. But surely there’s a way to have meaningful events for families that genuinely includes more of them.

Why should one mother ruin it for everyone else